Great Interview with Paul Heyman

[Booker Thee]

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The Rise and Fall of ECW DVD has been a huge seller for WWE. The promoter and owner of ECW, Paul Heyman, talks with me below about many topics within ECW, but without a doubt is the man who made the company what it was. Paul Heyman holds nothing back in the interview below.

First off how are you?

"I am wonderful."

How happy are you with the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD as a full complete project and the way WWE put it together?

"I am as happy as I possibly could be with it. I had pretty low expectations going in, bluntly. I didn't expect them to pull something off this complete and this accurate. I had my doubts going in that they were going to represent ECW in the light that I thought would have been appropriate. I am more than pleasantly surprised by it because I find it, as of now, the most accurate look at ECW and what we went through along the way."

It has been well known that you put a lot of your own money into ECW. What was the main reason that you took a lot of your own money to keep this company going as long as it did?

"Because I believed in it. I loved it. I lived it. I have absolutely no regrets regarding it."

What was the main reason you closed the promotions doors besides financially, if any others?

"That was the only reason. We had no network home. The Pay-per-view industry, InDemand in particular and an executive at the time by the name of Dan York made the assessment that without ECW on a network we could not sustain ourselves or stay alive, and that giving us the money that was coming in from pay per views would have been a bad business move on their part that they could negotiate, which they did, the amount owed out with the bankruptcy court, which they did. Based on the fact that we had no network home and no way to promote our licenses or to promote our shows, and coupled with the fact we couldn't get our money out of the pay per view company, which was several million dollars, and now you have no revenue stream or platform, and you are out of business."

What do you think your relationship was like with WWE and WCW when they told you they wanted to sign one of your talents?

"Well, it depends on which talent it was and how they went about it. WCW used to go about it by offering huge signing bonuses to our talent if they did it under wrap and did what was called a jump. WWE was more up front with me. If there was a talent from our organization that was looking to go there or if they were looking to talk to talent, which didn't guarantee the talent would go to them, but they were very open about it. They called me up and said they were interested in talent and they told me there was going to be a conversation. My relationship with both organizations was really different as I resented how WCW did it and WWE had the attitude that 'business was business'. 'We are gonna take what we think would benefit our company the most if we can take it from you'."

How important do you think the ECW Barley Legal pay per view in 1997 was to the company getting it's name known and established and where do you think ECW would have gone if it didn't do well?

"I think if the pay per view didn't do well we were out of business immediately. There was nothing left or nobody who would have done business with us after that. There would have been no network that would have talked to us. The talents would have lost hope. I think the carrot dangled in front of all of us is that we could do blow away shows no one else would compete with in terms of style and appealing to different demographics. Without that success nobody else would have stayed. In terms of acceptance in the business world there wouldn't have been a licensee after ECW Barely Legal if it would’ve been a flop. Nothing would have happened. It would have been this was the little train that could but couldn't. It was like 'wow they really could'."

Do you think that TNN didn't do a good job at trying to help promote the ECW TV show and that really hurt the company at the end?

"Not only do I think it, but I know it. TNN is the main reason for the chain of events that lead to the demise of ECW. We went on CBS cable, which was then known as the Nashville Network, which was being changed to the National Network, and what a brilliant marketing plan that was. We were supposed to have all these synergetic opportunities. It was owned by CBS and was promoted by Infinity Broadcasting. We were supposed to have commercials than ran throughout TNN. We were supposed to have press releases for every city that we went to with the local cable affiliates having spots that they would run. Our lead in show usually did between a 0.3 to 0.6 rating. We always did between a 1.2 and a 1.5. Sometimes we would fall down to a 0.9, but that is when our lead in was doing a 0.2 rating. We were by far the highest rated show on the network and blew away everything they had. We were in a horrible time slot on Friday nights, but I have no complaints about, because I agreed to it. Moments after we signed with TNN they were in negotiations with WWE. They cannibalized us. They never sent out our press releases. They never ran our commercials. They never helped us with any of these synergetic opportunities, which is why we went on the network to begin with. We increased our expenses hundredfold by going on that network. It just ate us up alive. I think the best story I can tell is we had a deal to go to Japan at the end of December and they insisted we run a show in their home town of Nashville, for some unknown reason. We book Nashville, Tennessee and are expecting press releases, local affiliates, video spots, interviews, and newspaper talk and they did nothing. Not one thing for us going into Nashville, Tennessee. On the flip side you would watch the TV show and within the body of the TV show you would see the ads that say 'don't miss ECW on TNN'. Well, they are watching it! I called Brian Hughes the executive vice president of TNN at the time and said to Brian, 'Thanks for the advertisement. It's wonderful, but could we air it somewhere else besides our own show?' We already had these viewers. He said, 'Well, isn't that the target demographic?' So right there we had our answer. As soon as they put us on we were the guinea pig to see if wrestling could hold on TNN and to see if they wanted to invest 26 million dollars in WWE as TNN was being absorbed by Viacom. We got cannibalized for it. It started the chain of the events that lead to the death of the company."

How influential was Terry Funk on the company and elevating guys?

"We wouldn't have had an ECW without Terry Funk. He made everybody on our roster."

What are your thoughts on the night Shane Douglas threw down the NWA Championship and how did it become a turning point in the company?

"Well, my thoughts are we did the right thing. It was something we were very specific in doing because we wanted to make a statement that everything that had been written in wrestling before that day was the old testament and we were going to write the new testament."

[Booker Thee]

PART TWO

There has been much talk that WWE might start up and ECW brand or promotion under their company. Do you think there is any possibility or truth to that?

"I certainly hope not, because I don't think it would succeed. Could we do it as a one time thing? Or a once in a while thing? Yeah, I think people would be very interested to see a 2004-2005 version of an ECW show. But, to do ECW now, as a promotion under the auspices of being corporately owned would never work because that wasn't what ECW was about. If it were attempted, it would prostitute what the brand truly was."

You have been on and off as a booker and part of creative for WWE. Tell me about what you have learned about working with other people as part of WWE creative.

"Well, it depends on who we are speaking about. I try to learn from anybody. I use to get ideas from members of the ring crew in ECW. I use to get it from fans and the guy at the local deli. If you pay attention to the theory behind what people are suggesting you can learn an awful lot about their perspective of what wrestling could be or should be. I have learned from everybody I have worked with in WWE because if someone cares enough to throw out an idea, I care enough to listen to what is behind the idea."

Tell me about the story when you were on the road with Dutch Mantell and the Undertaker in the past in WCW and he thought you were driving to fast.

"I think it was 1990 in WCW. We had a point inbetween Chicago, Illinois and Cincinnati, Ohio and that was the town. We thought it was a night time show and we got in the car saying we would stop off and get something to eat, take a leisure drive, as it is a 250 mile drive. We looked at the sheet and, what a surprise, it was a 2:00PM show and it was already 12:05PM in Chicago, Illinois. The Undertaker, known as Mean Mark then, said, 'I think we should phone in and let them know we are going to be late.' I just put on my seat belt and turned to Dutch Mantell and said well at least one thing we will get there by the opening bell. I put both feet on the gas petal and steered the car."

There are many guys who I have interviewed in the past who have told me that you didn't pay them what you promised them in a full amount. Tell me is any of this statement true?

"Well, it depends on what you mean by that. Me personally, that is like saying if the WWE closed it's doors today does Vince McMahon owe anybody any money,personally. I don't think he does. I think the corporation does. I ran a corporation. The corporation went out of business. There were a lot of people who didn't get paid at the end of the corporation. That is a blunt fact. Neither did I though. It's not like I was hoarding all the cash and saying 'wow I am sorry I had a wonderful week, but yours is surely the s****'. I filed for personal bankruptcy. It's not like I had private money hidden in the islands or something. I did feel like taking money out of a company for those seven years when it could be invested in the company. Especially when other people weren't being paid, I wasn't being paid. I didn't give myself a paycheck and say to someone else 'sorry you didn't get paid'. Nobody lost more money than I did. Nobody supplied more funds than I was. Nobody took a better beating than I did in terms of finances that I did in ECW. I am sorry that certain people didn't get paid or what they were hoping for or didn't get paid what they were promised. I went out of business. The company went out of business. Where was the money going to come from?"

What talents do you think were good in ECW that never got a real chance in WWE or WCW?

"It depends what you consider a shot. Public Enemy went to WCW, but I don't know if they were directed right or produced right. Could they have been big stars? I think so, but I don't know so. I don't think Rob Van Dam has gotten his fair shake in WWE. I wish several of the cruiserweights we had were more focused on. It's a case by case scenario. By way of example, I think Raven could have been a huge star in this industry. I just don't know if that character worked outside of the ECW environment. It's tough to say. Some characters were tailor made for the ECW environment and their characters wouldn't have worked elsewhere. Some characters just weren't given the chance."

Finally, where do you think the future of WWE is going as the business is not at it's highest point right now?

"I think there comes a time when assessment needs to be made. If WWE wants to stay where they are it is a fourth generation family business. With Shane McMahon's son being born its now a fifth family generation business. I think with all other changing times, much like any other industry, it needs to change. Just look at the TV industry today in the revolution in advertising. With cable TV, they are taking so much business away from broadcast TV. With Tivo, you are going to see more integrated advertising than 30 second commercials. Everybody is fast forwarding through the commercials. The wrestling business needs to accept change and adapt to that change. We need to find a style that is more contemporary with today's audience. Than you will need a new style three or four years from now to attract that audience."